RC-Monster Forums  
RC Monster

Go Back   RC-Monster Forums > Support Forums > Slipperential discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 6 votes, 4.33 average. Display Modes
Old
  (#46)
Ryu James
Second place is the first loser!
 
Ryu James's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 898
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Utah
03.29.2009, 05:08 AM

thats crazy about your buggy jhautz. talk about a selling point! i just ordered one and am anxious to try it out. i know i am gonna have to spend some time with it cuz i am just not used to having any slippage in my drivetrain. the guys who use clutches in their setups probably could find it easy to get used to this. in fact, that is a question i have Mike. how does the Slipperential work with a clutch setup like the Tekno kits run? does it essentially take the place of the clutch or could the two be run together?

i run direct drive and have tried Tekno's clutch setups and although i think they are great quality and work great i have preferred direct drive although i know there are benefits to having some "slip". like coming out of the corners like jhautz spoke of.

can the slipperential be compared to a clutch or are the two in completely different arenas?


Jammin SCRT10 Neu 1512 1y
Losi Ten-T SCT conversion Neu 1512 1y
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#47)
Maciolus
RC-Monster Carbon Fiber
 
Offline
Posts: 100
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Poland
03.29.2009, 05:14 AM

Congarts Mike!

Could you please upload pdf file with instruction sheet?


> HB L2PE + MMM + Medusa 60-1600 @ 6S A123
> HB LSP + MMM + Medusa 70-1600 @ 6S2P A123
> AE B44 + MM + Medusa 50-3300 @ 4S A123
> AE J82 + SW 5700 @ 2S LiPo
> AE TC5R + MM 6900 @ 2S LiPo
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#48)
RC-Monster Mike
Site Owner
 
RC-Monster Mike's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 4,915
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: PA
03.29.2009, 10:27 AM

The Slipperential will work fine with the clutch setup, Ryan - a bit redundant, but it would work perfectly fine. One thing to consider when using the clutch(and therefore mechanical brakes) with our Slipperential is that the slipper is built onto the diff cup - so if the front or rear brakes are actuated UNDER the center diff top plate, it will need to be moved to the top to avoid interference.
The Slipperential and Tekno clutch are two different means to a similar end result - though the behavior is different. I answered a similar question on another forum, so here is a copy/paste:

A nitro style clutch theoretically "disconnects" from the drive train at low/no rpm and engages up to "lock up" as rpms increase.
In practice, they both(Slipperential and nitro style clutch) offer drive train protection and traction control - just different ways of getting there and different "feel". The Slipperential is never "disconnected", so throttle response is instantaneous - direct drive(and also allows esc brakes and reverse). Power output/delivery can be tuned and the harsh shock to the drive train is minimized in either setup - just tuned differently. The Slipperential can be infinately adjusted in the vehicle by loosening the adjustment nut lock screw and turning the nut(adjusts like any other slipper really). The clutch setups are tuned with different clutch pads, springs, spring orientation, etc.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#49)
jhautz
RC-Monster Mod
 
jhautz's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 4,217
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
03.29.2009, 01:05 PM

To me the only thing similar in the slipper vs the nitro clutch is the fact that both protect the drivetrain from shock and smooth out the bottom end sharpness. I've driven them both now and they feel very different to me.

Nitro Clutch: The thing I didn't like about the nitro clutch was in low speed technical sections it lacks precision to me. It was hard for me to hit the throttle just the right amount the get the clutch to engage and the car to make the smaller acceleration. For me it was anyway. The nitro clutch does give allot of the same power management on the low end that helps prevent the traction loss on harder acceleration, and it also disconnects the drivetrain from the motor when you let go of the gas and it allows the car to coast allot better.The disengaged drive train is something that the slipper will not do and some like that driving characteristic. (good or bad, you decide). Requires the use of mechanical breaks

Slipper Clutch: Keeps the very connected feeling for me, making the lower speed drivability in the technical sections easier for me. It didn't really feel any different than direct drive with no clutch in this area. Adds the benefit of smoothing out the bottom end snap to help maintain traction on heavy acceleration like the nitro clutch. It does not disconnect the motor from he drivetrain when off throttle so the coasting characteristics are the same as a direct drive (good or bad, you decide) Allows the use of simple motor breaks or mechanical breaks with the right setup.

One other thing I did notice yesterday while playing with the slipperential is it not only effected the sharpness of the hard acceleration, but it also effected the braking a little using the motor brakes. Made it harder to lock up the the brakes when coming into a sharp corner under heavy braking. The slipper seems to absorb the initial impact that slamming on the brakes creates. The initial hard hit of the breaks seems to be what breaks the tires traction and starts then skidding and once once they are skidding its hard to get them back. So there may be a breaking benefit for the slipperential also. It could also be a negative for those that like to slam on the breaks, slide into a corner and then throttle out of it. I'll have to do some more playing with it to see how the adjustment effects the braking exactly. It was more of just an observation of a side effect at this point, but something that could be interesting.


I can't decide if its more fun
to make it...
or break it...


Silent...But Deadly



Last edited by jhautz; 03.29.2009 at 01:14 PM.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#50)
himalaya
RC-Monster Carbon Fiber
 
himalaya's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 392
Join Date: Nov 2008
03.30.2009, 06:15 AM

Mike have you ever considered (if possible) to further integrate more features into your proud product? something like Losi's smartdiff or torsion diffs ? that will make the slipperential ultimately perfect.


....What a Blue Sky....
   
Reply With Quote
Besides.
Old
  (#51)
JERRY2KONE
JERRY2KONE SUPERMAXX
 
JERRY2KONE's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 3,452
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: HAYMARKET VIRGINIA
Besides. - 03.30.2009, 09:22 AM

There is also the factor of human error to be considered. Trying to hit your groove and make your marks exactly the same on every single lap of a race is extremely difficult to do by any standards due to the human factor. We are not like machines, and yes we do make mistakes. Even the slightest mistake can cost you time on the track. Having this mechanical slipper/clutch where there was none before will take that level of error out of your hands once you get the slipper setup correctly for the surface that you are running on. THis will improve your lap times if you use it correctly. That was also a great point about the shock factor to your drivetrain on landings Mike. That in istself is a huge plus to having one of these installed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RC-Monster Mike View Post
Well, there is no substitute for a smooth trigger finger, but a smooth trigger finger is also no substitute for a slipper. When you land a big jump on all 4 wheels, for example - the shock is transmitted through the entire drive train(even if your "smoothly" picking your nose with the trigger finger). The slipper will absorb this shock. When accelerating through a particularly rough area, there is also considerable shock. Once the shock force exceeds the slipper tension, some slippage will occur and absorb this shock - again, the trigger position has nothing to do with it.
Regarding traction control - well, you can't "feel" the track from the driver's stand, so your smooth trigger action, while helpful, is also somewhat reactive(and hopefully proactive on the 2nd lap). And unless your have motor skills equivilent to Rainman's math skills, you won't be exactly the same every time, either. The slipper setting will be consistant. On a slippery track, you can dial in slip and make it much easier to control traction. On a firm track, a stiffer setting will be transparent(won't know its there), but hard landings or other high shock loads will be absorbed by the slipper.

So yes - it can limit power transfer to the wheels like you mentioned - in fact that is the whole point. It limits "power" or "shock" both ways(from the truck to the track or from the track to the truck). :)


SUPERMAXX YOUR LIFE.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#52)
Ryu James
Second place is the first loser!
 
Ryu James's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 898
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Utah
03.31.2009, 04:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RC-Monster Mike View Post
The Slipperential will work fine with the clutch setup, Ryan - a bit redundant, but it would work perfectly fine. One thing to consider when using the clutch(and therefore mechanical brakes) with our Slipperential is that the slipper is built onto the diff cup - so if the front or rear brakes are actuated UNDER the center diff top plate, it will need to be moved to the top to avoid interference.
The Slipperential and Tekno clutch are two different means to a similar end result - though the behavior is different. I answered a similar question on another forum, so here is a copy/paste:

A nitro style clutch theoretically "disconnects" from the drive train at low/no rpm and engages up to "lock up" as rpms increase.
In practice, they both(Slipperential and nitro style clutch) offer drive train protection and traction control - just different ways of getting there and different "feel". The Slipperential is never "disconnected", so throttle response is instantaneous - direct drive(and also allows esc brakes and reverse). Power output/delivery can be tuned and the harsh shock to the drive train is minimized in either setup - just tuned differently. The Slipperential can be infinately adjusted in the vehicle by loosening the adjustment nut lock screw and turning the nut(adjusts like any other slipper really). The clutch setups are tuned with different clutch pads, springs, spring orientation, etc.

thanks Mike. that explains things perfectly. sorry if you posted that somewhere already. i didnt see it and this was my first time reading anything about your slipperential. it sounds like the slipperential will be more up my alley. i cant wait. the way jhautz described his comparison of the clutch and the slipperential makes sense and i can relate. i didnt like the disconnected feel from the drivetrain at low speeds and and it just didnt "feel" right to me. just my preference. but understanding now that the slipperential keeps the drivetrain always engaged while providing adjustable slip to smooth out take-off and out-of-corner acceleration sounds like the perfect combo to me.

also, jhautz mentioned the effect the slipperential has on braking; how it is hard to lock the brakes up with the esc brakes. he said it could be a positive or negative effect i guess depending on your driving style. for me, i like to lock up my rear wheels going into a SHARP turn but i use mechanical brakes so it wont be an issue at all.

i am plannin to run in the brushless buggy open class at the Silver State RC Race in Las Vegas this weekend. i imagine i might be the only one there with a slipperential since it just came out. i am pretty new to competitive racing but i cant wait to try it out and also show it to everyone. get some good exposure. anyone else going to be there with a slipperential?


Jammin SCRT10 Neu 1512 1y
Losi Ten-T SCT conversion Neu 1512 1y
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#53)
jhautz
RC-Monster Mod
 
jhautz's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 4,217
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
03.31.2009, 10:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryu James View Post
also, jhautz mentioned the effect the slipperential has on braking; how it is hard to lock the brakes up with the esc brakes. he said it could be a positive or negative effect i guess depending on your driving style. for me, i like to lock up my rear wheels going into a SHARP turn but i use mechanical brakes so it wont be an issue at all.
Please remember, I had my truggy brakes set up before I put the slipperential into it. It was tuned so I could just barly lock up the tires comming into the hard corners when using the direct drive. My brake epa is set to only 64% so there is alot of braking left to dial in if you want more braking. Please dont think that you cant lock up the tires, it just seemed to take the edge off of the brakes is all. I havent spent ay time trying to tune the brakes with the slipperential, the brake comment was just a side note observation. My initial feeling was I liked the feel of the slightly less touchy feeling brake, but if I wanted more I'm sure I could have dialed more in. I just havent gotten to playing with it yet.


I can't decide if its more fun
to make it...
or break it...


Silent...But Deadly


   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#54)
Finnster
KillaHurtz
 
Finnster's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 2,958
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bucks Co, PA
03.31.2009, 11:37 AM

I was reading the product description I couldn't find a few specifications that would be handy to those looking, esp as word gets out and casual customers come looking and don't necc browse the threads. Specifically the tooth count of the spur (sounds like only 46 is avail now) as well as the diameter for the bearings. I'm assuming std 8mm.

The later isn't critical, but would be nice as it says you need bearings to fit your app.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#55)
Arct1k
RC-Monster Mod
 
Arct1k's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 6,597
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NJ
03.31.2009, 11:43 AM

Just a idea but might be good to have available for purchase sets of shims for the centre diff in the shop...

Then include within construction guide how to shim centre diff correctly.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#56)
RC-Monster Mike
Site Owner
 
RC-Monster Mike's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 4,915
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: PA
03.31.2009, 11:44 AM

I updated the listing for you, Ryan. 8mm inside diameter on the bearings. 8x16x5 is the most common bearing used - Losi uses 8x14 flanged bearings. :)
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#57)
RC-Monster Mike
Site Owner
 
RC-Monster Mike's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 4,915
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: PA
03.31.2009, 11:47 AM

Chris,
I do intend to offer shim kits for various vehicle installations soon - pretty sure a Kyosho or Ofna will need about 3mm of shim(1.5mm per side preferably). I will likely offer a shim kit that includes a couple of various shim sizes to allow installation into most applications with a single part number. :)
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#58)
Arct1k
RC-Monster Mod
 
Arct1k's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 6,597
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NJ
03.31.2009, 11:52 AM

Great stuff mike!

PS PM me here about what I emailed you last night mike if you want any changes - Cheers

Last edited by Arct1k; 03.31.2009 at 11:55 AM.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#59)
Dafni
RC-Monster Mod
 
Dafni's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 2,485
Join Date: Feb 2005
03.31.2009, 12:01 PM

Dunno if I missed it, but the bearing-to-bearing distance might be interesting for customers... Altough "same as AE, XRay..." should do the trick for most I guess.


RC/DC - Brushless Conversions since 2000 !
>>>>>>>>> www.rc-dc.ch <<<<<<<<<<
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#60)
Arct1k
RC-Monster Mod
 
Arct1k's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 6,597
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NJ
03.31.2009, 12:07 PM

My guess is once there are a few out there - a simple shim table could be collated...
   
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



RC Monster




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com