RC-Monster Forums  
RC Monster

Go Back   RC-Monster Forums > Support Forums > Slipperential discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 5 votes, 4.20 average. Display Modes
Welcome to the World of Slipperentials!
Old
  (#1)
cadima
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Welcome to the World of Slipperentials! - 05.20.2009, 01:24 AM

A bit late in the coming, but to all enthusiasts out there......"Welcome to the World of Slipperentials!"

Cadima here, design engineer and co-developer of the slipperential. Not only did I work with Mike to create this thing, I was the primary lab rat for testing and have more hours of use with the Slipper than anyone else in the world! And so, after reading the slipper threads and seeing some of the questions/responses/feedback, I feel obligated to add my 2 cents (this may turn out to be 4 cents however).

First off, what is the purpose of the slipperential?
Science Guy Answer: To attenuate peak torque loads through the drivetrain to a desired level.
Translation: Basically to help control the vehicle by softening up the delivery of power to the wheels (smooth it out) so you don't slide into an oversteer situation so easily, and to reduce the shock transmitted to the entire drivetrain.

Next Question………why use a slipper to smooth out the delivery of power when this can be accomplished with my ESC?
Answer: Yes, today’s ESC’s can in fact emulate a slipper clutch with respect to “smoothing” out the power delivery. Problem is, they do it whether you are taking off from a stand still or already rolling onto a straight away going 10 mph. So when you smooth out the power using the ESC, at slow speeds it helps traction but at higher speeds you don’t need traction control and you loose some of the punch that makes brushless so sweet to begin with. This is not to say the tune-ability of the ESC shouldn’t be used. It is a critical part of the system. But it cannot accomplish what the slipper does. The slipper, in a sense, smooth’s out the power delivery at lows speeds but once you’re rolling it delivers full power with no delay. Gaining this extra degree of freedom to tune is why you should try a slipper.

Next Question.......why would I care about shock to my drivetrain when it's bulletproof already?
Answer: Much of the stress applied to any part of your drivetrain is, in fact, weakening it over time. Eventually, fatigue sets in and the parts will break at stresses much lower than they originally could withstand (aluminum can very susceptible to fatigue failure). But all that jazz aside, bent driveshafts, popped motor rotors, excessive gear mesh wear, chipped spider gear teeth, and things like that just happen. Those who experienced such a thing as a busted rotor on their prized motor may never forget. Limiting the peak power you allow to be transmitted into your truggy/buggy is always a good thing. The result is predictable reliability, a more consistent and uniform rate of wear, and less catastrophic “Oh $^!#” moments when the stress sent into the drivetrain does manage to exceed the strength of one of the parts.


Other FAQ’s:

Q: What fluid should I use with the slipper?
A: I’d start with whatever you were using before. The slipper does influence the diff action sorta but it depends how much slip you have it set for. Lots of slip is bad so don’t go there. I found no real need to change course from what I using sans a slipper. Experiment and decide for yourself….there’s no single right answer here.

Q: After putting the slipper in, my truggy seems slower. Why?
A: Only two things with the center diff can affect speed……the gearing and excessive clutch slip. The slipper currently comes with a 46T Mod1 spur. If your old spur was a different size and you didn’t compensate with the pinion you will run at a different speed…..nothing to do with the slipper function. However, if your slipper is too loose it will limit power severely and you will not make full speed. You also reduce the life of your clutch significantly. See “How do I set up the slipper?” below for more on this.

Q: Where do I start when tuning a new slipper application?
A: You will read or see in the slipper manual a suggested gap between the nut and the thrust bearing washer that sandwich the wave springs. This is a good number to keep in your head to get a bearing and calibrate yourself, but I suggest you start here:

1) With everything ready to go and freshly with built, go out with the slipper adjusted to a loose setting but tight enough to keep together and hold its composure for some spinning. Hit the throttle in short bursts making the slipper slip around a bit to bed-in or seat the pads against the pressure plate. You want to make it slip only long enough to make it warm…no more.
2) Next, tighten the slipper as much as reasonable so it slips little, if at all, when lapping the track. When driving you should not notice any difference between a slipper and a typical rigid diff since they do the same thing if the slipper isn’t slipping! If you can’t get it tight enough to prevent slipping (not sure why this’d be, maybe you have a heavy truck or something), you should add another wave spring in there to increase the spring force.
3) Tune by working your way down from no slip. Gradually find the point where you just begin to notice a smoothing out of the truggy when lapping, particularly when shooting out of a corner. This is where I stop and lock down the setting. I find that it’s set about where I like it when I can barely get the spur to turn by hand (when the slipper is out of the truggy, that is). You may want more slip, maybe less, but it shouldn’t be too far off this point. You shouldn’t be slipping up and down the track, just like any other slipper shouldn’t be. Play around but try and avoid excessive slip or you’ll get excessive wear and that sucks.

Good luck and hope you enjoy!
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#2)
jhautz
RC-Monster Mod
 
jhautz's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 4,217
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
05.21.2009, 03:30 PM

Awesome post Paul!!!! Great info here.


I can't decide if its more fun
to make it...
or break it...


Silent...But Deadly


   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#3)
XXXDAD
RC-Monster Carbon Fiber
 
XXXDAD's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 57
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Florida , West Palm Beach
Talking 05.26.2009, 03:07 PM

Thank you... so I run the losi 2.0 E w 45(plastic)/15 gearing .. with your 46t what pinion should I use to be close to that gearing. Also can I use the Losi lightend outdrives with this Dif. ( still have to shim 1mm for gear clearence?)
Have the Losi 2.0 E with Tekin 2050 and zippy 4cell.



Glenn Carlson
XXX-CR
XX-4 WED
8IGHT E
TEN SCT
Losi everything!!
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#4)
rchippie
RC-Monster Brushless
 
rchippie's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 2,824
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: largo fl
05.26.2009, 04:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXDAD View Post
Thank you... so I run the losi 2.0 E w 45(plastic)/15 gearing .. with your 46t what pinion should I use to be close to that gearing. Also can I use the Losi lightend outdrives with this Dif. ( still have to shim 1mm for gear clearence?)
Have the Losi 2.0 E with Tekin 2050 and zippy 4cell.
Use brian g's calculator to figure out what gear to use .


http://www.scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/


REAL MEN RUN BRUSHLESS
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#5)
superek4
RC-Monster Aluminum
 
superek4's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 832
Join Date: Jan 2009
05.27.2009, 07:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rchippie View Post
Use brian g's calculator to figure out what gear to use .


http://www.scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/
This speed calculator does not have x2 CRT gearing wat other software can I use? Thx.

Btw my center diff bearing was damage in 1 race, 2 seven min heats n 30min main. Becoz I hv to use a spacer both side as it doesn't fit in jamming CRT wo shim. What else can I do?


My Sponsors
Hobbywing
ManiaRc
Acorn racing
UpgradeRc
Blackbeard RC
Team Hong Nor
Team RC Monster
MoosRacing
BocaBearings
SweepRacing
Tresrey USA
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#6)
RC-Monster Mike
Site Owner
 
RC-Monster Mike's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 4,915
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: PA
05.27.2009, 08:36 AM

Just enter the diff ring and pinion gear ratio into the calculator.
regarding the bearing damage - was it a new bearing when you installed it, or was it a carry over from prior to installing the Slipperential? I doubt the spacers caused the failure, Alan - more likely wear and dirt over time or perhaps improper installation. The actual load on the CD bearings is a very small fraction of the load the 8x16 bearings are capable of and spacing them out the amount needed won't cause damage.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#7)
superek4
RC-Monster Aluminum
 
superek4's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 832
Join Date: Jan 2009
05.27.2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RC-Monster Mike View Post
Just enter the diff ring and pinion gear ratio into the calculator.
regarding the bearing damage - was it a new bearing when you installed it, or was it a carry over from prior to installing the Slipperential? I doubt the spacers caused the failure, Alan - more likely wear and dirt over time or perhaps improper installation. The actual load on the CD bearings is a very small fraction of the load the 8x16 bearings are capable of and spacing them out the amount needed won't cause damage.
Thx Mike I will check n put 2 new bearings to test again, I m very happy with d slip diff my CRT no longer wheelies n steering n throttle is smooth.

Is there anyway I can remove d screw of the diff ring? I rounded it:(


My Sponsors
Hobbywing
ManiaRc
Acorn racing
UpgradeRc
Blackbeard RC
Team Hong Nor
Team RC Monster
MoosRacing
BocaBearings
SweepRacing
Tresrey USA
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#8)
superek4
RC-Monster Aluminum
 
superek4's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 832
Join Date: Jan 2009
05.28.2009, 08:17 AM

Just 1 question, I think I rounded the screw for d diff ring how can I remove it?


My Sponsors
Hobbywing
ManiaRc
Acorn racing
UpgradeRc
Blackbeard RC
Team Hong Nor
Team RC Monster
MoosRacing
BocaBearings
SweepRacing
Tresrey USA
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#9)
RC-Monster Mike
Site Owner
 
RC-Monster Mike's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 4,915
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: PA
05.28.2009, 11:56 AM

An ez-out may get it done for you. If you used threadlock and the kung-fu grip when you tightned it down, you will ned to add some heat as well most likely(to de-activate the threadlock).
I don't usually use any threadlock on the nut - it only needs to be snug to retain the setting and mine has never backed out without threadlock.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#10)
superek4
RC-Monster Aluminum
 
superek4's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 832
Join Date: Jan 2009
05.28.2009, 09:08 PM

Wats ez-out?


My Sponsors
Hobbywing
ManiaRc
Acorn racing
UpgradeRc
Blackbeard RC
Team Hong Nor
Team RC Monster
MoosRacing
BocaBearings
SweepRacing
Tresrey USA
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#11)
rchippie
RC-Monster Brushless
 
rchippie's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 2,824
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: largo fl
05.28.2009, 09:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by superek4 View Post
Wats ez-out?
A ez out is a tool that is used to get stripped or broken screws out . Here is a example of how a ez out works . This one is called the grabit . Thats the brand name but they all basically all work the same . Ez-out is also a brand name . They are acctually called screw extractors.

http://www.4grabit.com/Default.asp?g...dPQXKBQ&bhcp=1


REAL MEN RUN BRUSHLESS

Last edited by rchippie; 05.28.2009 at 09:19 PM.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#12)
XXXDAD
RC-Monster Carbon Fiber
 
XXXDAD's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 57
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Florida , West Palm Beach
06.16.2009, 12:48 PM

Will the Losi outdrives work on this slipper?



Glenn Carlson
XXX-CR
XX-4 WED
8IGHT E
TEN SCT
Losi everything!!
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#13)
FG101C
RC-Monster Aluminum
 
Offline
Posts: 765
Join Date: Aug 2007
06.16.2009, 01:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXDAD View Post
Will the Losi outdrives work on this slipper?
Probably, I had to use my Xray outdrives because the outdrives that came with the slipper were not a perfect fit in my Xray. The way the outdrives are cut the front shaft had no play in the outdrive, so any chassis flex would have created some real problems.

Also on your Losi if your using the Losi motor mount the 46 tooth spur will not fit, you will have to shimm the whole diff assembly up a couple mm to prevent the gear from hitting the chassis.
   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#14)
jhautz
RC-Monster Mod
 
jhautz's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 4,217
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
06.17.2009, 01:44 AM

They should work if you have a recent version. I think the very first batch had end plates that didn't work with most other outdrives. But since, I believe Mike has made a small adjustment (rolling change) to the end plates that will allow the use of some of the common outdrives. Not 100% positive on the Losi, but hopefully Mike will chime in with some more specific info.


I can't decide if its more fun
to make it...
or break it...


Silent...But Deadly


   
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#15)
RC-Monster Mike
Site Owner
 
RC-Monster Mike's Avatar
 
Offline
Posts: 4,915
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: PA
06.17.2009, 11:01 AM

The Losi out drives are a little too short on the inside and will not work. AE outdrives work, though. Hot bodies and Kyosho work as well. We will have new, 8mm bore, 4140 hardened steel outdrives soon as well. Should as good or better than anything out there right now.
   
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



RC Monster




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com